Regarding your "transbr0 MRA" post, I don't see why that's problematic. Maybe I'm just ignorant, but most of those quotes seem pretty okay. Could you explain where the problem is? Thanks
August 31, 2015
in the spirit of my ‘new’ approach to blogging, i’m going to assume this is in good faith and actually answer. let’s deal with each screen cap (i’m going to transcribe the text for accessibility reasons).
One thing to keep in mind, as you read through this, is that a lot of these tweets are responding to trans women or nonbinary dmab ppl.
- Trans masculinity is markedly different from cis masculinity.
- We are essentially men who have not been indoctrinated into the patriarchy since birth, and we behave different around each other.
- And yet, around cis men, for survival, we must perform to patriarchal standards to be accepted.
- So basically if you wanna see what men would be like without being born into the patriarchy, sit and talk with a group of trans men.
For me, this is the most obviously absurd set of tweets. I mean… really? Okay. So the first tweet basically says ‘not all men.’ That’s really what the rhetorical force of this is. Trans men are men, but they aren’t like cis men, so not all men. Trans men are a magically distinct and special class of men.
How are they special? Well they haven’t been ~indoctrinated into the patriarchy since birth~. This br0 doesn’t know much of anything about gender theory, feminist theory, sociology, psychology, etc and so one. This relies on the ‘female socialization’ premise that a post that’s coming out later today refutes. There is no such thing as female (or male) socialization. Thus, this claim is false.
Indeed, he contradicts himself with the content of the third tweet. Around cis men (and cis men only apparently) trans men must conform to patriarchal standards to survive. But… how would they know how to do this if there weren’t indoctrinated with the patriarchy since birth?
Let me try to clarify this with an analogy. You know how culture shock is a real thing? This is what happens when people have sudden, massive changes to their social environment. Like when I moved to China. It took me a while to adjust but I never ‘settled’ or ‘fit in’ in any meaningful way. Why? Because I hadn’t been socialized as a mainland Chinese person. I didn’t know the customs, habits, context, etc of being in China. And even after a year… my cultural copentency was nowhere near that of a native born Chinese person.
Culture shock can happen with changes in class status or even just social groups (a lot of new college students experience culture shock because university is very different from high school). How quickly you get over the culture shock and adapt to your new circumstance depends on a few factors, one of which is how radical the change actually was. Highschool to college? A lot of neurotypical, white, otherwise privileged students will usually take a semester or two to adjust. Because the change isn’t that radical. Moving between countries and languages? Can take a really long time (if ever). I mean… it isn’t for nothing that Asians are labelled ‘eternal foreigners’ in white settler countries.
People write science fiction novels trying to explore societies where the ~aliens~ weren’t indoctrinated with the white version of patriarchy. Ursula K. LeGuin’s the left hand of darkness comes to mind. So what this person is suggesting is that trans men basically grow up on a different planet, do interstellar travel to settle in a ‘alien’ world and culture, and yet manage to ‘perform’ patriarchal standards such that cis men don’t threaten them? Trans men are truly magical!
The last tweet… assumes that anyone who is criticizing the way that transbr0s (like this person) embody toxic masculinity hasn’t spent a sufficient amount of time around trans men…
Except that I have. I have been in groups with mostly trans men. I have seen how the interact with each other in ‘safe’ environments (ie, where they don’t have to be stealth).
And from this experience what can i say? welp…. that trans men are men.
If your trans advocacy attacks other trans people, you are transphobic. Simple as.
So… This is basically saying that I, a transpinay, must support and help trans men, otherwise I’m transphobic? I, a transpinay, owe my labour and dedication to men? That if I level any amount of criticism (ie, ‘attack’) of trans men, then I’m transphobic?
I’ll put this very clearly: i do not owe men (trans or cis) any amount of attention, time, labour, energy, thought, sympathy, empathy, or any other thing.
i. do. not. owe. men. anything.
and saying that i do, that i’m oppressive for not wanting to deal with transbr0s sexist bullshit? lololol. ok.
This delusion people have that trans men are ALL perfectly cis passing IMMEDIATELY upon IDing as male needs to die out immediately.
In one part, this is a straw man. i don’t think i’ve ever heard anyone say this.
but what is this actually about? this is about the claim that many trans women have that trans men are men and, thus, have male privilege. what this tweet is really saying is ‘not all men’.
- Like um why are you writing trans men off because of a couple bad experiences? Stop making us responsible for representing ALL of trandom.
- If I wrote off all cis people because of a few bad experiences I’d not speak to 75% of you.
- And I wouldn’t speak to trans women because I have literally been abused by more trans women than cis people.
Okay… So the first tweet is, again, ‘not all men.’ This is frequently heard in many MRA circles when women are talking about sexual assault. So…
The last tweet… is interesting to me. Because what he’s doing is framing trans women as the aggressors (abusers) for resisting his misogyny. Remember the dynamic here: men oppress women.
Men Oppress Women
This isn’t a two way street. this set of tweets is like someone telling me that i shouldn’t write off all white ppl just bc only some of them colonized my ppl for over 300 years. and that if my (and my ppl’s) resistance to white ppl is… abusive. lol. ok.
I think I was just mentioning something about trans men’s lived experience as women being irrelevant the second they ID as male…
again, this is the socialization issue. do you know i literally saw a transbr0 saying that they’d trust a man’s experience of womanhood more than a woman’s? sure. in the original comment it said ‘trans man’ and ‘trans woman’ but…
one of the easiest ways to evaluate just how misogynist these br0s are being is to remove the ‘trans’ from it.
d00d literally said: men have more authority on women’s experiences than women.
i hope it is pretty self-evident why this is fucked up.
I love love love non trans men speaking out in any capacity for trans men. Makes me feel like other gropus actually do care about us.
For other ppl who have trouble with tone, the latter sentence is meant sarcastically. in general, he’s referring to the issues we are discussing here. that trans women are silencing trans men bc we say they have male privilege.
remove the ‘trans’ from that last sentence and…
‘women are silencing men bc we say they have male privilege’
interesting how clearly misogynist this is.
Don’t RT any of this otherwise some trans woman will come into my mentions and tell me I’m bad for being afraid and I can’t handle that.
Lol. This obviously relies on the trope that trans women are really just aggressive men in dresses. Seriously.
And the don’t RT? is basically saying “i’m afraid to be held accountable for my words and sexism”.
And the last? I’m afraid? who is actually the victim here? the women harmed by his misogyny or the poor man they are resisting?